What is the most fun vehicle under $20k that can hold a car seat?

"WiscoProud" (wiscoproud)
07/19/2016 at 12:32 • Filed to: None

I have a goal of buying a fun car sometime next year once I have some key debts paid off and renovations done on our home. The problem is I need to be able to carry at least one car seat. I either drop off or pick up my almost 2yo every day. I would like to keep it under $20k, but would go up to $25k if its especially cool. This is not my primary vehicle, just something fun. Ideally, it would be something I could use for an occasional track day as well. It also needs to come with a manual.

While I would prefer to get something from the 70s-90s, the Porsche 996 seems to be the current leader for my requirements. While the 4s aren’t presently available for under $20k, they are in the low $20s and still coming down.

I would love to have an older air cooled Porsche, and wanted an SC for a number of years, but those are largely north of $30k now too. Maybe in a year the bubble will pop and bring them back down, but I won’t hold my breath. A 964 would be ideal, but those are ridiculously priced.

Keeping with the Bavarian angle, I’ve also looked at several old BMWs, including 2002s, 635csi, 535is, and their various M versions. I believe I could get a car seat into any of them, but the 2002 might be tight.

I’ve also debated an E39 M5 or an E46 M3 thanks to my irrational love of individual throttle bodies, but am a little worried about running costs (I know the 996 IMS issue well). Same vein would include Audi S4/RS4. They’re great cars and would certainly be fun, but they don’t have that vintage feel yet.

I’ve also looked into 60-70s pony cars that can be modified into the trans am look, like the first gen Mustangs (surprisingly affordable), Camaros (Not as affordable), AMC Javelins (less affordable yet). But unless a deal drops into my lap, they’re probably out of my limits.

So to leverage the collected knowledge of Opponauts with kids, what am I missing and what would you suggest?

DISCUSSION (81)

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > WiscoProud
07/19/2016 at 12:34

Used FoST?

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > WiscoProud
07/19/2016 at 12:37

Have fun with a car seat in a Porsche Carrera. The back seat is there for decorative purposes only.

Car seats nowadays are fucking huge. Even some 4 door sedans have trouble accommodating a car seat especially if it’s rear facing.

crowmolly > WiscoProud
07/19/2016 at 12:37

Hold a car seat, or has the LATCH system?

To be honest I wouldn’t buy a car for frequent kid use without LATCH.

finn's arm > WiscoProud
07/19/2016 at 12:39

I vote 996.

While you will not always have a child in the car, 90's+ for safety. I love the 535is, BUT an E39 is much much more advanced from a safety and technological standpoint and even that is a 20 year old car. Would be unfortunate to mourn the loss of your child along with your car when in an accident with a newer vehicle.

You might have pull some trim and use a bolt and nut to be able to use a car seat in some (E36 being my personal example).

AM3R shamefully returns > WiscoProud
07/19/2016 at 12:39

An E24 or E28 would be very cool.

Have you thought about an E39 M5, E46 M3, or even a 335is?

My citroen won't start > WiscoProud
07/19/2016 at 12:40

Kinja'd!!!

DirtyBird > WiscoProud
07/19/2016 at 12:42

05 or 06 gto, 400+ hp manual. independent rear suspension. and can be had under 20k. also an adult can fit pretty comfortable in the back seat.

LongbowMkII > WiscoProud
07/19/2016 at 12:47

Step 1: get 2000's car

Step 2: remove all NVH deadening

Congrats you have a vintage feeling car without the vintage feeling crash protection.

I wouldn’t even consider taking any of my kids out in the Nova.

HammerheadFistpunch > WiscoProud
07/19/2016 at 12:48

I know you are looking at older stuff, but a turbo subaru (LGT or FXT or other) are great kid carriers that are a lot of fun and safe too.

EL_ULY > WiscoProud
07/19/2016 at 12:49

Take your pick from HERE

HammerheadFistpunch > crowmolly
07/19/2016 at 12:50

I used to think so too, but I’ve done it in the Cruiser for years now and Im convinved that if you do it right, seatbelts are actually a better solution than LATCH...mainly because carseats are heavy and LATCH was designed around a combined 65 lbs seat/kid limit, where belts are designed for much more weight. The main benefits for LATCH are ease of use to install and tightening (getting the seatbelts tightened right is a PITA) and the rear anchor (which I do anyway in the back with tie down points meant for the 3rd row.

Future next gen S2000 owner > Luc - The Acadian Oppo
07/19/2016 at 12:51

Porsche makes a car seat specifically designed to fit in the 911.

Monkey B > WiscoProud
07/19/2016 at 12:51

I’d go newest/safest. You have to sacrifice for the wee ones for a number of years.

If you got a newer 911 you’d have to have the airbag deactivated (since the rear seat is purely decorative) which can be legally done via a permission form from the NHTSA. I had to do this for my Chevy Astro work van in 2003 as I did drop offs

Clemsie McKenzie > WiscoProud
07/19/2016 at 12:52

If you’re considering a 911, why not a 944 or even a 928? I’m sure you can find some great things for under $20k.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > WiscoProud
07/19/2016 at 12:55

Used FiST or FoST.

HammerheadFistpunch > crowmolly
07/19/2016 at 12:57

That having been said (that other comment of mine) I wouldn’t put my kids in anything older than early 90's for safety sake. There have just been too many advancements in safety tech to ignore

TheRealBicycleBuck > WiscoProud
07/19/2016 at 13:00

I faced the same Problem, but my kids were older. I chose a WRX. It holds both kids and my wife and is never short on grins.

WiscoProud > crowmolly
07/19/2016 at 13:06

That's honestly been a debate. If I go for a more modern car, I would probably shoot for 2002+ when they were mandated to have LATCH. Not sure when ISOFIX was mandated though.

WiscoProud > Luc - The Acadian Oppo
07/19/2016 at 13:08

We have a giant one in my wife’s car that’s rear facing, but I have a smaller front-facing one in my truck. It seems that with the Carrera if you remove the seat back and bottom (pretty easy) car seats seem to fit well. There are a number of people doing it from what I can tell. For the short distance we go, she could ride in front with me too, but my wife would likely veto that.

WiscoProud > LongbowMkII
07/19/2016 at 13:10

I'd be lying if I said that wasn't part of the struggle. While we only live about 5 minutes from her school, which is all residential, I would want to go on road trips as well, which makes me apprehensive.

RallyWrench > WiscoProud
07/19/2016 at 13:12

Any of those BMWs are a good choice, I know from experience that kid seats are fine in an E28, but nothing will have the convenience of the Latch system. You can forget kid seats in the back of any 911. E46 M3s are really quite good from a running cost perspective, not a lot goes wrong with them. The E39 M5 is also a great car that also doesn’t cost as much to run as you might think, less than an old 911. There are some expensive potential issues, but finding a nice one is the hardest part. I’m a BMW, Porsche, and VW dork so I love lots of their cars and have an E46 wagon that’s been a great car. I’ve always wanted an old 911, but the market is now out of control.

Here’s my take on old cars: I daily drove a 1966 Ford Fairlane for most of last year, and it put the safety of kid seats in modern cars into stark perspective. I loved the thing, and it was fun to cruise around town with my eldest in the back, but modern kid seats are not designed for old lap belts on super cushy seats. Just buckling the thing was hard because it was centered behind the seat, and I had to put all my weight on the seat itself to get it cinched down with anything resembling security. I was never really comfortable with her in the car on the highway, and my baby never rode in it. It was by no means a perfect car though, and had some rust so that was part of my concern. I still want another old Ford family cruiser, but a better one. And I still have two 60's projects in the garage that I hope to share with the kids, but they’ll never be daily drivers or regular kid cars. Most modern drivers are inattentive morons in airbagged cocoons, they don’t know or forget what it’s like to drive drum brakes, or that manual cars roll back, or that most old cars can’t just magically accelerate. Other people are the problem with old cars. At least 80's cars have a fair chance of protecting you if something goes wrong, particularly European ones.

Honestly, as a father of two myself now, I want nothing more than a 2015 Mustang GT in Deep Impact Blue as dad’s hot rod. I’ve never owned a car that brings the thunder or can vaporize tires on command, and I think that’s something I need in my life. Probably won’t happen, but it’s fun to think about. A Fiesta ST or 5-door GTI is more likely.

RallyWrench > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie
07/19/2016 at 13:12

I was going to suggest the FiST, both good choices.

RallyWrench > Clemsie McKenzie
07/19/2016 at 13:15

Both are cool, but no kid seats will fit in back.

WiscoProud > RallyWrench
07/19/2016 at 13:15

Well said. If I didn't have to drive her literally every day, it would be an easy solution. I like the M3s, but they seem to be holding their value pretty well considering how old they are. An M5 would be great, but I just want something sportier.

WiscoProud > Clemsie McKenzie
07/19/2016 at 13:16

I like the 944, but they are seriously small. I'm not sure I fit in them honestly. Never cared much for the looks of the 928.

WiscoProud > My citroen won't start
07/19/2016 at 13:18

That is gorgeous. Were these 2+2 or just 2 seaters? One of the execs at a former job of mine had one of these and a BMW 850i. Never got to meet him in person, but I would drool over his cars regularly.

Clemsie McKenzie > RallyWrench
07/19/2016 at 13:19

But will they in a 911 though? I’ve been carried around in an SC as a kid, I’m not sure you could fit a seat back there.

WiscoProud > HammerheadFistpunch
07/19/2016 at 13:19

I test drove an STI hatchback which was a lot of fun. If I could find an Impreza RS it would be perfect, but the only ones I seem to see are beat to shit. Although there is a middle aged guy somewhere in my neighborhood with a very nice one.

WiscoProud > DirtyBird
07/19/2016 at 13:21

Very tough to find with a manual, I've looked. Same with the G8 and Chevy SS

RallyWrench > Clemsie McKenzie
07/19/2016 at 13:21

Nope, I mentioned that to the OP above. Certainly not a G-body car or 964. A 996 maybe , only if they’re forward facing, but it’d still crimp the passenger seat. Forget rear facing seats if you want a front seat passenger. I rode in my uncle’s SC as a kid too, but that was a different time.

WiscoProud > AM3R shamefully returns
07/19/2016 at 13:22

The M5 and M3 I've been considering. Little nervous about the known issues, but I guess they're no worse than the 996 IMS or S4 timing chain tensioners.

My citroen won't start > WiscoProud
07/19/2016 at 13:23

2 seaters, you could fit a car seat on the front though.

WiscoProud > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
07/19/2016 at 13:24

I’ve looked at them, but I haven’t had a chance to drive either. Personally I would like to stick with RWD or AWD, but I do recognize how fun they are supposed to be.

RallyWrench > WiscoProud
07/19/2016 at 13:24

You can get a good E46 M3 for $15k, I doubt they’ll depreciate more than that for good ones. Worth looking into.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > WiscoProud
07/19/2016 at 13:25

I would at least check them out.

WiscoProud > RallyWrench
07/19/2016 at 13:25

It would be front facing. I’ve seen on the Porsche forums they recommend removing the seat backs and bottoms, which apparently opens up a lot more room and is pretty simple.

WiscoProud > My citroen won't start
07/19/2016 at 13:26

You have me sold, but my wife may disagree

Ike > WiscoProud
07/19/2016 at 13:27

I have one, I haul the 18month old in it. It's just about the perfect car

WiscoProud > finn's arm
07/19/2016 at 13:28

Yeah, the safety aspect is a key concern. I can always buy something older, but with my pick up/drop off duties, I would never get to drive it.

RallyWrench > WiscoProud
07/19/2016 at 13:28

Yeah, it’s easy to do. You could gain a few inches of depth that way, could work in a 996, the older cars in a rare pinch.

WiscoProud > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
07/19/2016 at 13:29

I will if nothing else because I like test driving cars. The FiST might be a tight fit for me (6'5", 280) but I'll try anything once.

WiscoProud > Ike
07/19/2016 at 13:29

FiST or FoST? An RS would be fantastic, but it will be 10 years before that's a possibility.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > WiscoProud
07/19/2016 at 13:30

You won’t fit in the Recaros, and you won’t be able to get a sunroof. I’m 6' and 250+ and fit with both of those fine though.

My citroen won't start > WiscoProud
07/19/2016 at 13:31

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/…

You could also Mr Bean it.

Kinja'd!!!

WiscoProud > My citroen won't start
07/19/2016 at 13:33

God that car is sexy. For something like that it would be worth driving my daughter to school in one vehicle, then coming back to take the fun one to work.

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > WiscoProud
07/19/2016 at 13:40

These are cars that might meet (some of) your requests that I also currently happen to have saved on my cars.com favorites. Some of them are well over the price, but you could find decent examples in your price range.

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/…

There are several two-seaters I’ve posted here, IDK if that works for a car seat.

WiscoProud > sm70- why not Duesenberg?
07/19/2016 at 13:52

That is an impressive list of unique cars. I particularly like that Audi GT, not to mention I don’t think I’ve ever seen that version of Celica before.

I’ve considered the 90s Japanese turbo cars as they all have at least a perfunctory back seat. The price on that RX-7 is great for what looks to be a pretty stock car. I would worry about rebuild costs though.

DylanToback > WiscoProud
07/19/2016 at 13:55

Have you looked at the E36 M3? It feels more old school than the E46 while still being a relatively modern car in many respects. To me, it is a nice balance between the simpler E30, and the more modern and complicated E46. Also, unlike the E46 M3, it is available as a 4 door.

You also could get a pretty spotless example for well under your budget.

Ike > WiscoProud
07/19/2016 at 14:00

FiST

Kinja'd!!!

TheD0k_2many toys 2little time > WiscoProud
07/19/2016 at 14:17

Miata. passenger air bag can be turned off and there are car seat anchors

My citroen won't start > WiscoProud
07/19/2016 at 14:18

That sounds like a good compromise.

WiscoProud > DylanToback
07/19/2016 at 15:07

I have gone back and forth on the E36 M3. They’re not bad, but it bothers me we got the neutered version. To me M-cars need to have individual throttle bodies. I will accept lower power in exchange for individual throttle bodies. I will say an E36 with a centrifugal supercharger would be a lot of fun though.

WiscoProud > TheD0k_2many toys 2little time
07/19/2016 at 15:09

I've seen Miatas with front facing car seats. I'm sure my daughter would love it.

DylanToback > WiscoProud
07/19/2016 at 15:11

That is certainly understandable. The engine is definitely less special than that found in the E46 M3. That said, it is a great car to drive. It has enough power to have fun without having so much that you can never approach the limits without risking jail time. I found it to be one of the more balanced and enjoyable cars I have driven.

As far as the supercharger goes, I see them on forums and other car sale sites with superchargers for well under your budget as well.

WiscoProud > DylanToback
07/19/2016 at 15:15

Yeah, I've seen them too. The hard part is finding one where someone didn't pair it with a stancing kit or other questionable mods.

DylanToback > WiscoProud
07/19/2016 at 15:29

Very true. I was looking for one for quite a while, a lot of them have been completely ruined by now.

I would also suggest a 135i. They are a bit newer than what you seem to be looking for. But they are a lot of fun and fairly quick even when stock.

WiscoProud > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
07/19/2016 at 16:57

Unfortunately that's what I feared.

AM3R shamefully returns > WiscoProud
07/19/2016 at 16:59

For $25k you could get an E92 (or E90) M3. Those are VERY solid M cars, only real concerns are throttle actuators and rod hearings.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > WiscoProud
07/19/2016 at 17:05

But really, the standard ones are fine. I have back issues, so the bolstering is needed from the Recaros. But really, I just wanted orange seats.

CaptDale - is secretly British > WiscoProud
07/19/2016 at 17:53

Kinja'd!!!

The GTO, always there when you need lots of HP for your money.

Dru > WiscoProud
07/19/2016 at 19:37

Kinja'd!!!

Have you thought about the S550? They're still a little high on price but it's a good value for money. They'll depreciate nicely to coincide with your own personal timeline.

WiscoProud > CaptDale - is secretly British
07/20/2016 at 09:18

I have, but finding a decent manual one is difficult. Same with the G8 and Chevy SS

WiscoProud > Dru
07/20/2016 at 09:20

I have quite a bit actually. I was never a fan of the old solid axle in the prior versions, but this one checks most of my boxes. Ideally, I would love to get the GT350 for the sound of that glorious flat plane crank engine, but those prices won't be coming down for a while.

Dru > WiscoProud
07/20/2016 at 09:34

I always liked mustangs but not enough to actually consider one. This new generation changed my mind because of the styling and the IRS coupled with that sweet coyote. I had a seat in one not too long ago and the interior is a lot better in years past as well. The back seat, however, is sized almost exclusively for children. And I am a fairly short dude.

WiscoProud > Dru
07/20/2016 at 09:49

That's the same boat I'm in. Thankfully the back seat would be used exclusively for little people. I will say I saw a Shelby this morning on my commute that looked pretty good. Almost had me rethinking my dislike.

CaptDale - is secretly British > WiscoProud
07/20/2016 at 11:07

Yeah I spent 6 months looking for a new car and found mine in Reno with only 9,700 miles on it.

WiscoProud > CaptDale - is secretly British
07/20/2016 at 11:09

Good job. You have more patience than I do.

CaptDale - is secretly British > WiscoProud
07/20/2016 at 11:13

Yeah I almost bought a 2002 911 C2 with a bad 2nd gear synchro for the same price minus the amount to fix the synchro. Happy I didn’t

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > WiscoProud
08/08/2016 at 12:32

So, not rear-facing anymore, right? Those are the worst...

WiscoProud > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
08/08/2016 at 12:40

Nope. My daughter is in a front facing at the moment. We started a bit early considering the two year recommendation, but she's in 3T clothing, so we felt okay. If I still had to contend with rear facing, I would be consigned to sport sedans at best. The E39 M5 or S4 would almost certainly win that battle.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > WiscoProud
08/08/2016 at 14:09

Your options open up hugely with front-facing. My kids seem to have my wife’s height and are pretty small for their age, so I’m hoping to get by with a 2+2 at some point in the future (before the middle one gets too big for that.

WiscoProud > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
08/08/2016 at 14:13

Yeah, we’re looking for a vehicle trifecta. My Land Cruiser, my wife’s forester (will likely get traded for a minivan) and something sporty. Once more kids come along, the sporty car will likely be sold, so I’d like to get one before that point.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > WiscoProud
08/08/2016 at 14:22

My wife and I are 38 and have 3 (9, 7 & 3). She had an ‘08 CX-9 that we bought new that we recently sold to my sister after 190k and picked up a ‘14 MDX (so she should be happy for a while - ha!). I’ve had my ‘08 E90 M3 for 4 years, and plan on keeping it for quite a while, and I bought an ‘03 Pathfinder 4x4 for cheap as a beater a couple years ago.

Now I just need to figure out how to add an Elise/Caterham/Atom to the mix...

WiscoProud > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
08/08/2016 at 14:28

Nice. I've looked at the E90 M3s. How are they reliability wise compared to the E46? I'll be honest, the subframe issue has me nervous.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > WiscoProud
08/08/2016 at 14:51

Mine’s been very solid mechanically, but I’ve had some electronic sensors go out. If I was you, I’d look for a “stripper” model. I love the car, but let’s just say I’m glad I waited to buy it until I could truly afford it. I bought it with some remaining factory warranty, and caught a bad AC evaporator before it ran out. I bought an extended warranty to 85k and only had a couple tires replaced under it (did replace a high pressure fuel sensor that was below my deductible). Just recently, I had an issue with the steering angle sensor and the EDC (adjustable suspension) control unit - not a cheap fix. Throttle actuators are another common problem, but I haven’t run into that, and some small percentage have the catastrophic bearing failure, but that does seem to be pretty unlikely. Optioned out, they are very complex automobiles. Like I said, if you go E9x, I’d go with ‘09 or newer and find one that went easy on the option list (one with a manual and no EDC will probably hold up better over the long term).

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > WiscoProud
08/08/2016 at 14:57

I assume you’ve read this: http://oppositelock.kinja.com/bmw-e90-m3-the…

WiscoProud > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
08/08/2016 at 15:09

That's a pretty good writeup.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > WiscoProud
08/08/2016 at 15:32

Yup - it’s still one of the top results is you search E90 M3.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > WiscoProud
08/08/2016 at 15:49

“This is the finest car on the market, period.” - K.C. Colwell

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2008-b…

“Finding another car that pleases its driver in such myriad forms might as well be the quest for the Holy Grail; the only obvious replacement for our M3 is the next one. The World’s Greatest All-Around Car? Unquestionably.”

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/bmw/m3/20…

“The M3 was an awesome long-distance car too, and the combination of a supercar-worthy engine with Isofix-point practicality was like manna from heaven to those who had to do a school run. But I’m sure you can guess what I’ll miss most about the M3. When the road was clear and the V8 was in that insanely powerful band of revs homing in on 8500rpm, then it was just magical. The front end would lock onto line as you threw it into a corner, the front tyres feeling like they were coated in super-glue, then the rears would flex and slip to each touch of the throttle before you howled off towards the next corner faster than figures can convey. I won’t forget those moments.”

http://www.evo.co.uk/bmw/m3/9755/bm…

“Trying to summarize a BMW M3 is a bit like trying to explain a supernova crashing into a crayon factory to a blind guy. There’s hyperbole and cliches, and none of them do the car any justice.”

http://www.edmunds.com/bmw/m3/2009/lo…

BringBackTheCommodore > WiscoProud
08/09/2016 at 12:23

Have you considered the less popular variant of the Fox body, the Thunderbird Turbo Coupe?

‘88 T-bird, $6.5K: http://www.cars-on-line.com/81425.html

‘88 T-bird, $5.7K: http://www.cars-on-line.com/80149.html

RCR for more details:

WiscoProud > BringBackTheCommodore
08/09/2016 at 12:30

I realize their power potential, but honestly I’ve always thought they were incredibly ugly. The Mercury Cougar's with the v8 looked nice though.